Have you seen this video?
I want to hear what you think. Soon, as inspired by Tim Stevens, I’ll post my thoughts.
Posted on 03/18/2010, in church, discipleship, evangelism, missional communities, social settings, the basics, the culture, worldview. Bookmark the permalink. 13 Comments.
That's hilarious! Thanks for sharing. I'm always blown away by how many people I come into contact w
Awesome!! Your grandfather had a lot to do with my being a PREACHER Of The Gospel. He enjoyed pickin
Yes, actually I am. I'm his great grandson, but you do have the right guy. =)
ARE YOU THE GRANDSON OF ARCHIE WORD? JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAVE THE RIGHT PERSON. NICE LOOKING BL
Thanks, mom.
Stan Rodda 
I post these words with caution:
Turns out most midwesterners who call themselves Christians have the thought that alcohol under any circumstances and in any amount is evil, sinful, and just plain wrong. I think alcohol is a classic example of some Christians who like to go over the top on one “sin” while ignoring a host of others.
My personal opinion:
Drinking alcohol is acceptable and can even be a blessing: 1.) if one only drinks in moderation (a.k.a. no intoxication), 2.) if the individual consuming alcohol is over the legal age of 21, 3.) if consuming alcohol does not in any way hinder the your ability to share the love of Jesus of those who might be watching because they disregard your words due to your drinking alcohol. 4.) if the person drinking does not have any past history of alcoholism (or perhaps even a family history of alcoholism) 5.)if the goal of having a beer is not to get drunk, but to enjoy and celebrate God’s love and the blessings he’s given.
I submit, that, in excess, alcohol can be a destroyer of families and lives. Some feel that this is a danger too strong to mess with. If that is their feelings, then i support them in that. However, if handled appropriately, responsibly, and in a God-honoring fashion, alcohol can be a blessing and not a curse.
Edit made. They are now at the legal, drinking age. ha ha Thanks for the comment man.
I like the concept. Meet people where they’re at! Then invite them to the AA group at church. lol! Seriously though. I like the idea! You would have to find the right person to lead something like that though because alcohol is a slippery slope for MANY Christians! Flogging Molly!
I was going to post a comment, but honestly, I think Anthony said it well and I have little to add to it. I’m all for creative ways to teach people about God’s Word and His love.
Ok, I lied. I do have more to add. Sometimes I have to let things marinate before I am ready to respond.
I have often asked myself what we (the church) could do to create an atmosphere like the one that exists at a bar. At least in small towns, people go to the bar to share in comradery and to experience community. People work all week and then they go to the bar to see their friends, share experiences and unwind from a stressful world. It’s a place where they find friendship, feel comfortable and feel accepted. For a long time I could not figure out the appeal of hanging out at the bar. But I think I get it now. It’s more about community and less about alcohol.
So, basically what I’m saying is that, instead of asking how they can re-create that environment, these guys are just using the environment that already exists. I think it’s brilliant.
I agree. I think that Jesus indeed would hang out there. I think it is awesome. I think that Matthew 9:10-12 gives a clear indication of the effectiveness of this kind of approach to sharing the good news, and making disciples. He basically goes and hangs out with “sinners and tax collectors” for an evening of who knows what…surely they drank wine with their meal. When the “religious elite” of the … See moretime accused Him, Jesus simply stated: “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” How can you bring people to Christ unless you are in the midst of the people who don’t know Him?
…plus I like whiskey
I think that pretty much any venue (yes I am well aware that some venues have no redeeming qualities, so no lists please) can be redeemed with caution and love. The right kind of bar would have to be carefully chosen, i. e. a “hang out” bar and not a “party” bar. But, alcoholic beverages in moderation and shared in a safe, focused environment could be tremendously successful as a witnessing venue. Sipping-good; shots-not so much.
I love that Jesus hung out with the sinners! I don’t think he was worried about others saying ” hey- he talks to prostitutes- he must sleep with them!” He was more concerned about saving the hearts of the sinners. I know that it is VERY easy to get so surrounded by Christians, that you totally lose your influence on the lost. Hmm., and THAT is to be our whole purpose to be here! Please Lord, give me MORE chances to be with lost sinners! Amen! And Misty, sometimes I just wish I had a “Cheers” Bar nearby…I CRAVE to go where “everybody knows my name!!” Guess I better start looking!!!
I totally agree with Anthony’s comments on personal use of alcohol and how to handle being in community with different opinions on the subject.
How do you think this changes from being an average Christian person, to being a pastor sponsoring such an event? While my church holds such an opinion on alcohol as myself and Anthony, I don’t think we would hold this type of event just based on the unknown factor of *where* people are actually at.
I really encourage and affirm these guys for reaching our to their community, and especially trying to reach people who (especially in such a Mormon-saturated context as they are in) might have a negative opinion of religion due to clashes with alcohol and the church. However, I feel like pastors need to be careful how they promote and stand behind things like this because you can exclude just as many people by having a “beer and bible” event as you are trying to include — case in point, they offer an additional, yet separate event for those that don’t drink or want to be at a bar. From Tim Stevens’ article, it seems these guys are “planting a church,” meaning they are probably working on gathering a core group and building community. However, you’ve already got your drinkers segregated from your non-drinkers.
All that being said, I’m not going to be dogmatic about their methods… I think their heart and desire is in the right place, and I believe God will honor that — it just might not be the same method I would use — as a pastor (which I’m not). I would totally go to a bar and start conversations with people, or even hold this type of event, but I would rather see it more grassroots and organic than actually sponsored by the church as a “ministry.”
As a final note, here’s a story from my neck of the woods where something similar was happening a few years back. I believe despite all this controversy, the group still meets.
http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=25221
I personally think this is an AWESOME idea! People don’t want to sit in a stuffy church sometimes for study. It’s a building!! Why not go where people are and just sit with them in a place where they are comfortable and show them Gods love there! Love it!
Interesting….My Lead Pastor and I were having a discussion the other day about having theological talks in different places in the community. To discuss God openly in front of others.
I am all for taking the gospel to the places where it needs to be heard. As always we need to be careful and not cause our brothers to stumble. That is not to say we don’t do things like this because someone does not like it.
Sometimes I find the people with hang ups about alcohol are the same ones having heart attacks by 50 because of their diet. Sin is Sin.
We all have freedom in Christ but some if us have to use caution in the things we choose. Just because we have freedom does not mean we should.
I grew up in that Midwest Bible Belt and held a lot of teaching as the final word only to find out later that it may not be exactly what Scripture says :-) So I’ve done a lot of revisiting my personal beliefs and holding them up to what Scripture actually says about it.This is one of those subjects that has been examined from all angles since my family is divided on it lol
My personal conclusion is that doing anything in excess is probably wrong (with exceptions like love…). I think the teaching that any alcohol consumed is sin is based on 2 different Scriptures: not causing your brother to stumble and not to drink to drunkenness. I love the old preachers who blazed through starting the Bible Belt churches. They are/were wonderful men of God, but I also think they went extreme in some cases in order to keep the temptation of sin out of the camp.
Conclusion: drinking alcohol isn’t necessary. I don’t think it a sin. Drunkenness is what should be avoided. I don’t think we should judge those who do have a bit now and then… yet I think we should be sensitive to our surroundings too. For example, drinking is a sin in my mother’s eyes. For her to see one of her children drink hurts her. Why would I intentionally bring pain to her? We have discussed it and she knows that I don’t condemn a drink for dinner–but I would never do this with her and dishonor her by intentionally hurting her. I also think you should be careful around children for they are watching and WILL mimic you. So set a good example in all your ways.
Personally, it’s seems a little gimmicky to me. It’s as if they’re shouting, “Look at us!!! We drink beer and love Jesus!!!” I fear that my explanation of my feelings on this matter will be woefully inadequate and convoluted. That being said, why does it have to be “beer and bible”? Why can’t it just be people hanging out and talking? If I weren’t a Christian, I would have no interest in attending some scheduled event called “beer and bible.” In fact, I would feel the same as I feel now. If it has to be labeled, then it seems contrived and I would think that would dilute its effectiveness. Does that make sense? I think sometimes we are so focused on devising strategies in the church we miss out on the opportunities we are given through just living life. I work with plenty of non-Christians. If I invited them to an event like this, I seriously doubt that they would attend. However, if I invited them to go get something to eat and just talk, that invitation will generally be accepted right off, whether there is alcohol involved or not. Plus, I don’t like beer. I would have to start a group called “Bourbon and Bible” or “Whiskey and the Word.” Then again, probably those choices aren’t as “ok” as beer. :)